Ms Wünschel, the energy markets are completely out of joint, the price explosion has more force than the oil crisis in the 1970s. As someone who does the energy business, when will it be good again?
Katja Wünschel: What we are seeing at the moment is largely driven by the energy shortage caused by Russia's war of aggression against Ukraine. We all have to work now to ensure a sustainable, affordable and environmentally friendly and independent energy supply. The energy transition, the transformation, is more acute than ever. Therefore, it depends on how quickly and how successfully we manage this as a country. And I'm not just talking about renewable energies.
No? You are the head of wind and solar energy.
Wünschel: It is the entire mix that we have to convert and build up. We need the liquefied natural gas (LNG). We need the batteries, the storage facilities, we need hydrogen, green hydrogen. Getting all of this done at the same time is quite a feat for the next few years. There are only eight years left until 2030. By then, CO2 emissions should have shrunk considerably. There are only eight years left, and we really have to take a two-track approach. On second thought, that's not enough. There are probably five or six tracks that we have to run on at the same time. Not with the normal train, but the ICE.
The Federal Minister of Economics, Robert Habeck, has set a tremendous pace, and now the first signs of grinding are appearing, as with the botched gas levy. Habeck himself says that his people are finished. This begs the question, can the restructuring achieve the necessary speed? Is there a Habeck push?
Wünschel: At the moment, we see both in Germany and in Europe that the expansion targets are being increased everywhere. The EU has increased the targets, Germany has increased them, other countries are following suit. The pattern is uniform and that is also important. And now the big question is precisely how quickly can this be translated into action? And I would say that what we have seen in the last twelve months is impressive. We have not seen such a speed in Germany in the last ten years.
Do you have an example of this?
Wünschel: My best example is a community in Bavaria. I am not allowed to mention the name yet. It is a municipality that has not yet done anything in terms of renewables. And this municipality approached us and asked what we could do.
What could you do?
Wünschel: For example, building a wind farm together. Like we are doing in Bedburg in North Rhine-Westphalia, for example. The town there owns 49 percent of the wind farm, we hold 51 percent. Both profit. Just like there, we ask the local people what they want. Do the citizens want to participate as partners, or does the municipality? Do the households want green electricity from the park? The crucial thing is to do it together. That also helps with the permits. We did it there in two years.
That brings us back to the pace. Normally it takes six to seven years to complete a wind farm on land in Germany.
Wünschel: Yes, unfortunately it's much too slow and can't stay that way. We have to do it in two to four years, so on average in three years. If old wind turbines are replaced by new ones, it should go another year faster.
What about solar farms?
Wünschel: Developing solar projects is already faster. It takes two to four years. It depends mainly on how big the project is.
Because you spoke earlier about the year 2030 - the German Institute for Economic Research has determined how far Germany is from the goals of this year for wind power, solar and electric cars. The targets will be missed by a long way. Do you still think it is feasible?
Wünschel: I am very optimistic. It is feasible. It is very demanding, but it is doable.
From optimism to harsh reality. Times are very difficult for companies and private households because energy has become so expensive. If you are not a gas importer and you are an energy supplier, you have good times and write record profits. RWE has also profited. Can you understand why there are calls for the companies to hand over some of these excess profits?
Wünschel: The energy system has worked very well over the past 20 years. It has been disrupted by Russia's war. Any interventions should only be short-term. Companies must continue to have the opportunity to invest in modern technologies such as renewables and hydrogen. This is the best contribution that energy companies can make to get out of the crisis quickly. It is also clear that the federal government must come to the aid of those who can no longer cope with the situation now.
Does that mean that such a windfall tax on energy companies would be justifiable?
Wünschel: As I said: The energy companies should make their contribution, ideally by investing in a modern and affordable energy system.
What many people don't understand is why the most expensive power plants determine the overall price of electricity. How could this system be reformed so that prices come down?
Wünschel: Basically, the electricity market works. Now short-term interventions are being discussed because there is a shortage of raw materials and we are seeing fantasy prices for gas, for example. I am definitely not the right expert on what reforms could look like. It is a very complex system.
The second irritant is nuclear power. Do we need the three remaining German nuclear power plants this winter or not?
Wünschel: That's for the federal government to decide.
Back to renewable energies, your field of expertise. You have opened seven regional offices all over Germany so that RWE can cover the area. One of them is in Augsburg. When will RWE build the first wind farm near the city?
Wünschel: I can't tell you yet. We started in November, are building the teams and are now in the process of securing the sites.
Securing areas?
Wünschel: That is the first step for project development. You have to conclude lease agreements with the landowners. We have already secured several hundred hectares. Next year I will be able to tell you more about concrete projects.
Where do you see Bavaria in terms of renewables?
Wünschel: Bavaria is the “Sun King”, that has to be said quite clearly. The Free State is tops in solar energy. Wind, on the other hand, is falling behind. This is why we still see so much potential here. Now we have taken the first step in the right direction. The controversial 10-H rule is to be dropped, the distance between wind turbines and settlements is to be reduced to 1000 metres. That is already a step in the right direction, but it will not be enough. So actually, the Bavarian regulation would have to be improved even further, just as other federal states are doing.
Wind power does not only have friends among the Bavarians. Couldn't we concentrate entirely on photovoltaics in the south?
Wünschel: No, that doesn't work. Because the sun doesn't shine at night and the gap that then arises cannot be completely bridged with storage facilities. Wind turbines are also needed.
Prime Minister Markus Söder has hugged a tree and promised 1000 wind turbines in Bavaria. How many will RWE build for him?
Wünschel: We at RWE want to do as many renewable projects in Germany as possible. First we need the land and the permission and then we see what is feasible. We are prepared to invest.
Söder has proposed putting more wind turbines in the forests. You'll get into even more trouble with conservationists because of red kites and bats. That can't be a good idea...
Wünschel: Yes, it can. We're seeing that in many federal states right now, that it's going into the forests. We can now build turbines so high that they tower far above the treetops. Provided that nature and species protection concerns are taken into account, I would like to see many more forests being looked at.